[ANNOUNCER]: Breaking down everyday workplace issues and diagnosing the hidden sickness not just the obvious symptom, our hosts James and Coby.

[COBY]: Did we lose a patient?

[JAMES]: No that’s just my lunch.

[COBY]: Hey thanks for joining us. I’m Coby, he’s James and we’re going to something a bit different today. We’re going to answer some questions posed to us by our faithful listeners.

[JAMES]: Yeah we did one of these episodes a couple months ago and, a few months ago now actually, and had some really good responses. People seem to really enjoy it, and we’ve gotten some more questions that I think are pretty interesting to dig into. so we’ve kind of gone through pick three that we thought would make for a really interesting discussion. So that being said, if you enjoy this type of format reach out to us through LinkedIn through info@roman3.ca, send us your questions and we plan on doing more of this type of podcast, Q&A piece in the future. I’m gonna start and throw the question at you for a change, so how would you use a framework like Integrity Leadership to guide your decision making?

[COBY]: Right. Yeah so we did an episode a little while back we talked about, we kind of introduced our concept, our framework of Integrity Leadership, which actually generates some pretty interesting discussions. So I think I think this is a good point, because part of the problem we talk about, like you know, leadership styles, leadership formats is we don’t always, you know, say okay well I understand there’s these philosophies, but what does that mean on a daily basis? And that is a excellent an excellent question, so I think I’ll first kind of do a quick recap of our framework of Integrity Leadership and then I’ll talk about the framework kind of in general. So Integrity Leadership is the framework that we use, and it’s really five domains, so the first domain is Reliable Respect, where you’re talking to people, where people know they can always consistently come to you, and your response will always be respectful. They can always rely on you have, on having a respectful interaction with you, kind of regardless of what’s happening kind of around them. The next is Moral Courage, this is about having the courage to do the right thing even if it’s not the most popular thing, or even if it’s not the easy thing. There’s Honest Acknowledgment, which is about acknowledging the contributions of others, but also acknowledging the validity of other views, or other arguments that you may not agree with. There’s Trustworthy Influence, which is how you kind of manage the authority that’s been provided to you, as a leader or as a manager. Like what do you do with the power that’s been bestowed upon you, and how do you use it. And then the last one is Empowering Others, how do you make it, you how do you make your efforts about improving the work and the abilities of others? So those five domains are kind of what make up the process of Integrity Leadership and how they’re used kind of in training and how they’re kind of used in broad understanding is kind of one thing, but the real question is how do you use it on a daily basis? So we talk about as idea of a framework because within those five those five domains we talk about kind of what is it that you can do when pressed with a hard decision or face a difficult situation, what is it that you can do with those five domains to actually help guide how you make decisions? But also kind of help guide how you want to handle the difficult decisions that will come from them.

[JAMES]: Yeah and what I like about the framework and the way that we use it, the way that we talk with and you know when we’re doing our training and you know teaching people how to use this framework, oftentimes we talk about it the easiest way to make it directly applicable in the moment is through reflective questions, right? So when we’re presented with a choice, with a difficult choice, around you know what we need to do as a leader, what you know what path are we going to go down, you know the idea you know it probably relates very closely to the idea of Moral Courage. You know am I making decisions based on what’s going to be best for me? Am I making decisions based on what’s going to be popular so that I don’t get pushback about it? Or am I looking to make am I having to find a justification for the decision that I’m trying to make? And I think that last one is a really big point. We end up talking about a lot, because oftentimes if you are searching for a justification to support your actions, you probably have made a misstep. If you have to seek justification for what you’re doing, if you are going through the process of trying to find a reason to do what you want to do, rather than necessarily looking at what is the right choice here. What is going to actually accomplish the goals it’s really important to understand, though that justifications. If you’re seeking them out to justify your actions, that to me is a at best it’s a yellow flag, a cautionary flag, of am I actually operating with Moral Courage, or am I just looking to do what’s best or easiest for me?

[COBY]: Yeah and I think that a good way… to pick a good example of that is sometimes when we’re in a leadership position, we’re being kind of expected to do something that will be a large amount of work that will probably yield very little outcomes, because of the optics of it. So you know, we may be like well I expect you know, oh that’s all going to fall onto your team, so the expectation is for you to just agree to do it because that’s going to be the popular decision. And then go, and then you know burn your team out to do something that’s going to end up having very little results. The right thing to do would probably be to identify that’s not going to be practical, good use of time and almost like and make admit the case, ideally the business case, for why that’s not a a good use of your time, even though you’re going to get some pushback and it’s going to be an unpopular decision. By standing your ground and not burning your team out, just to appease someone and for good optics, that does require Moral Courage.

[JAMES]: Yeah and we’re not saying this is easy. If it was easy, then it wouldn’t require courage, would it right?

[COBY]: Exactly. Yeah so another one is with Honest Acknowledgment and is the idea, with the idea sometimes with Honest Acknowledgment you hear ideas that disagree with with yours, or you have a plan in your mind and someone provides a counter plan, or a counter opinion. And it’s really easy to dismiss something that does, that we don’t necessarily agree with. But part of Honest Acknowledgment is recognizing that there that there may be validity in ideas, despite the fact that they’re not yours, or that they’re not you know in line with what you’re thinking. So the question that we often use with this one is; is there a value in this idea, despite my disagreement to it? So it’s something that you know, if you’re now hearing an idea and you know you don’t out right dismiss it. But actually go, okay there’s something there. I see where they’re coming from, I still don’t necessarily agree with it, but I can acknowledge that yes there’s some validity to it. Maybe there might be an opportunity to adjust my thinking, but maybe it’s a matter of just kind of understanding why, the even though there’s some good reasons to do something different, why I want to continue with the path that we’re on right now.

[JAMES]: And this Honest Acknowledgment can be a huge component to building psychological safety within your team as well. If you don’t need, if somebody’s coming to you with an idea, if a team member is coming to you with a new idea or a way of doing things if you shut that down, you’re only teaching people that not to bother to come to you with new ideas. Because you, once you have made your decision, you know you don’t look at any other options. But if you can get into the habit of this Honest Acknowledgment, of taking a moment and recognizing that if somebody’s coming to you with an idea, then hopefully they’ve actually put some thought into it and get them to explain the rationale. Get them to explain what, how they think the their idea is going to accomplish you know A, B, and C, whatever that those outcomes are. Engage in that conversation with people and acknowledge that you don’t need to agree with everything, but acknowledge that other ideas do have validity. You can honestly acknowledge somebody else’s idea and say okay “well we’re still going to do this do it this way, because of whatever.” And provide your justification, but that Honest Acknowledgment is a huge piece all of this Integrity Leadership, builds on all of the other topics that we talk about around psychological safety, and inclusion, and engagement. This is a an essential component to those.

[COBY]: Yeah because often it requires a strong leader to make those things happen. Because those things, because again having a psychologically safe, and inclusive, and engaging workplace is not an easy thing to do. And you can’t, and there’s no fast forward button to get there. So it takes somebody with integrity and with reliable respect and trustworthy influence all that sort of stuff in order to get there, and actually sustain it. Because you know it has to be built from leaders that are trying to follow a lot of these kind of fundamental pieces of the framework in order to actually allow for the culture to actually thrive that way. So another one I think we do one more, I just want to make sure that we’re giving some good examples of what this framework can look like, is with Reliable Respect. That sometimes when you are a leader you have people coming to you, you know less than happy, or you know or really or less than cordial. And so one of the things that it’s really important to understand and one of the reflective pieces that we use to try and you know build into our everyday in our decision making, is that you can only, you can only control how you respond. And sometimes an attack on you is likely more about them than it is about you.

[JAEMS]: Yeah and I think this is a big one because it’s hard to, like nobody likes being criticized, full stop. Like we, that doesn’t feel good and when somebody’s coming to you and with a problem and they’re attacking you, it’s the our natural responses to become defensive, right? To you know shift blame or to put blame back on the person to engage in that confrontation, which is not always healthy. Confrontation itself can be, conflict can be incredibly productive, but engaging in confrontation with somebody who’s already upset is rarely productive. The big thing with this and I think this is actually incredibly important for HR professionals because oftentimes we will have people come to us complaining about things, oftentimes people will, they will be upset they will go to HR because they are angry about something. One way of making sure that you are reliably being respectful, that you are not engaging in conflict is making sure that you are able to set very clear expectations at the up front. You know is this a complaint session or a venting session, or is this an HR session? Because especially in HR those two things are very, very different. With a very, very different outcomes. Oftentimes in HR, our default is to document everything because we need to document everything. Documentation is key but sometimes people need to get something off their plate so that they can get back to work and being productive. Other times there are things that legitimately have to be documented and need to be addressed. But having that conversation up front with somebody around the expectations of this a vent session, or is this an HR session, and show Reliable Respect that’s a one way of putting it into action. And it can actually make your life a lot easier as an HR professional as well.

[COBY]: And one of the things that kind of happens when you really embody Reliable Respect is that you become almost like a safe person for people to talk to. They always know that that when they come to you, that you’re gonna show them respect and you’re going to listen. So it may actually attract more venting sessions than you expect. But it’s one of those things where, like you know, but like when you become that kind of safe person to talk to then you can eventually have the rapport where they know that you know they may come out, they come in and actually kind of like, you know, all like you know hot, and angry, and and everything. But then you know the reliably respectful, you know trying to like you know help them figure out what’s about to be the best outcome from this can be. Something that you know if you you can manage it better, and eventually you can start to build in again other pieces of the framework that will allow that to become less of a time consuming process, and more of a how can we turn this around so that you have what you need to get back to work. And these are kind of the pieces that kind of this is why we say the framework is is not just this one aspect, there’s a lot more to it. But the idea is, but these are kind of the fundamental components to help you make those decisions kind of in real time. So you have some kind of real guidance as you go through it, go through your day.

[JAMES]: It’s turning them into habits, right? That’s what we want this to become. A natural response to how we react to situations and this framework is how we can build the habit, right?

[COBY]: Absolutely okay so let’s move away from that question. I think that was a good discussion, but I want to make sure that we kind of get to the other ones we kind of have identified as being a good conversation piece. So I have a question for you now James, So this one reads “you talk a lot about how HR managers need to be more focused on workplace culture, but what does that look like in the everyday processes that people have to go through?”

[JAMES]: Okay so first of all we do we talk a lot about workplace culture that’s our jam. That’s what we love to do and we’ve got a lot of tools and processes to support that. But culture cannot be separated from process. We often think about them as two separate entities. That we’ve got our HR processes, our documents, our documentation, our administrative side of the HR functions. And then we’ve got the initiatives that we put in place to build a workplace culture. And I think that’s a limited view of the two. I think it’s it’s actually limiting both your processes and your workplace culture. Because let’s take a look at a common process, HR process, like recruitment. Typically there are six stages, or six aspects to a recruitment process. There’s you know starting with your job postings, the screening, you’re interviewing, selection, making the offer, and onboarding. Those six stages comprise a pretty standard recruitment process. But in that process you have to have elements of your workplace culture. In your job postings, you need to be able to articulate your current culture, and the culture that you’re building towards. You need to be able to articulate what you offer beyond just monetary compensation, right? What is your organization’s competitive advantage in the labor market? How does your workplace culture actually reinforce and elevate that competitive advantage? And so culture needs to be not just sprinkled through all of your processes, it needs to inform your processes, as well. So we you know the posting is an easy example, but even in think about your applicant screening process, or your interviewing process, right? All of these should reflect the culture that you are that you have in your workplace.

And highlight the culture that you are building. Because those two aren’t always the same, and culture shouldn’t be static. It should always be a reflection of what you have currently, and the aspirational goals that we are working towards.

[COBY]: Yeah I think one of the challenges when it comes to people viewing kind of processes as being kind of, you know, on an island or divorced of the culture, or even kind of stand alone on their own. Like we do, we have these processes in silos. Its like when it comes to like recruitment, is a great example of a very common process that most people are familiar with. But you’re right it has to be informed by the culture, and it should be reflective of the culture. But like even with that, so one thing that I always find funny when we talk to clients about their recruitment processes, is they’re very focused on bringing the talent in. But they often kind of miss the point about how how linked recruitment is to retention, right? And the idea of you know, like we use this analogy a lot in our training, and I think we talked about a few times here on the podcast, but it’s the Leaky Bucket Analogy. So you may have like a perfect finely tuned recruitment process, and you’re adding more water into the bucket like really efficiently adding all this water in. But if you haven’t sealed the the holes of the bucket, you haven’t addressed the cracks, you haven’t addressed to the obvious gaps within the bucket itself, then the the water’s not being retained in the bucket. It’s pouring out through the holes and the cracks. So you know having this great process in, but having all these leaks that where all this all rushes out, is again, you’re constantly investing in the adding without you know really addressing the major issues of retention. So eventually you’re going to run out of water, you’re gonna run out of talent that you can actually put into the company, because you’re losing it all.

[JAMES]: And we’re seeing a lot of organizations in that exact situation where they, and so if we’re looking at the water is your talent pool the bucket is your workplace culture, or your organizational culture. It’s not, I’m not undervaluing this, but it’s not terribly difficult to recruit to find people to bring into… recruiting it’s a complicated process and that has many steps and there’s a lot to it, there’s a lot of work involved, but we know quite well how the process to find people and bring them into an organization, onboard them. But if you are not shoring up your bucket, if your workplace culture is full of cracks and leaks and your talent is just constantly flowing out, eventually the well is going to run dry. Eventually the talent pool that you are pulling from is going to recognize that your culture doesn’t allow for anybody to really be retained and be successful. So I love that Leaky Bucket Analogy because I think you’re right Coby, it’s a good illustration of how we can get processes really well refined, but if we’re not looking at, if we’re not looking at process and culture as one, then it really causes as many problems as it fixes.

[COBY]: Yeah so it’s really important to kind of have that broader view because the processes are often a lot more measurable and culture is traditionally a lot harder to measure. But if we’re not looking at them as kind of two sides of the same coin, or as being influenced by each other, then it’s something where we’re going to end up, we’re going to end up investing a lot into a leaky bucket and it’s going to end up causing a lot of complicated expensive problems that we’re gonna be, you know, causing for ourselves unless we actually can address it effectively, and sustainable.

[JAMES]: No that’s great I think I’ll throw another question at you. so here’s one for you; “I love your common sense approach to things, what are your thoughts on Performance Management tips, mistakes, and new ideas?”

[COBY]: Right yes, Performance Management, no that’s something that is a really good thing to talk about. I mean again, kind of going back to kind of processes, that need to be kind of informed by culture, that’s an another good example. Because like we’ve done a kind of Performance Management systems and processes for companies before, and we’ve you know kind of released some content kind of on talent development and all this sort of stuff too. And it is something where like Performance Management is something we really need to be very intentional with. Because sometimes it’s something where we are often just kind of satisfied with somebody just in the role, and not totally blowing it. And to us, that’s success. Your performance is good, because it’s not bad. That’s honestly, that’s a lot a lot of the ways that especially small businesses tend to operate, on the assumption of if it’s not bad, it must be good. So I think that would be helpful to kind of provide some, they want some tips and stuff like that on what, not on if it’s not bad, it’s good, but what actually makes it good.

[JAMES]: So my biggest my first tip, and my biggest pet peeve about Performance Management, is that when you get into a performance review there should not be a single topic that comes up that has not already been addressed with the employee. Managers I’m talking to you. When you are doing performance reviews this is not the time to spring a grievance, it’s not the time to go “oh do you remember six months ago when you did this thing? yeah that really ticked me off”. No, the time to address that was six months ago. The performance review is exactly that, it’s a review of what has happened. If they did something six months ago that ticked you off and you addressed it, then yes bring it up in the review. How have things changed? We talked about this six months ago, let’s look at how things have changed in those six months? So that situation does not come up again. That is a performance review. So springing new grievances on somebody during a performance review is an ambush, not cool, not productive, does not make people feel like they are actually valued, and that their performance is important.

[COBY]: Yeah and I think that to a lot of people performance reviews are a very stressful, anxiety-inducing experience, and they really shouldn’t be. Because you should know everything that you’re going to be talking about when you go in. You should be remembering the conversations that you have with the supervisor, with someone from HR, or kind of whomever would impact your performance plan. So it’s, and the other thing, the other thing you could do this is, probably my piece of advice is you should also be able to have a clear idea about what indicators of success for your role are. And sometimes that’s harder for people to imagine because they feel like their job is a appendix to kind of what the company does, or they’re just, they’re just a cog in the machine, and they have no idea what their actual functional purpose is. And that can make the performance management process difficult both for the manager and for the employee. Because they don’t kind of know how to make their job better, because they don’t really know how the job impacts the organization. So one thing that we do, and this is again this is an easier process, it’s a simpler process with smaller organizations than with really large ones, but it’s possible with all sizes. But the idea of tying personal Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) to a department’s KPIs or to the organization’s KPIs. So how what I do every day, the task that I ‘m measured for success on, how those directly impact the way that the department is measured for success, or the organization? So it’s a one-to-one direct line. When I do this, that creates success here. And then the whole organization is successful. So it’s very easy to see how your job makes a difference.

[JAMES]: Yeah I love the the KPI piece when you’re talking about you know oftentimes performance reviews are a stressful situation for people. It made me think about the, the two most common problems that I see with performance reviews is it stresses people out because they don’t know what’s coming, and they think they’re going to be ambushed. Or nobody cares because it’s a complete joke, and it’s just a box to tick. Like my first real job out of University, I remember being sat down and told by my manager, don’t worry about your performance review, we just need to go through and tick the box and submit it and all will be well. It was a joke, we would, I remember the staff sitting around and like basically just trading off; you know what’s your goal this year? Well I’ll take goal number three, and generic goal number three and insert that as my goal for this year, because there needs to be something so that somebody at head office can just tick the box that yes it’s been done. That’s not a good performance review, that is a waste of everybody’s time to tick a box that doesn’t lead anywhere. A performance review is a great opportunity to reward people who have been working hard to evaluate their performance, and say like; okay where are the problems that we can address together, identify opportunities for training, identify opportunities for professional development, and importantly identify people for internal succession. We hear a lot of companies struggle with developing succession planning internally, you know we don’t have a good internal pipeline to replace leaders who are moving on, moving up, moving out. Your performance review process should be a key element in your internal succession planning strategy. It should be clear of how what you’re looking for, for different roles. Because then it creates a very transparent process, a very equitable process that everybody can engage in, everybody understands what the process looks like, and how it’s used. Performance reviews, don’t treat them like a box to check, and don’t treat them like it’s your opportunity to ambush somebody because they ticked you off six months ago.

[COBY]: Well the thing is, is that if your performance review process doesn’t matter, then employee performance doesn’t matter.

[JAMES]: That’s yeah, 100%.

[COBY]: And so that’s a question you really need to be asking yourself when you think about; how does my employer view performance review? And if it’s a joke, then performance is a joke. If it’s a reason to grind axes then performance is just something that managers use as weapons. And it’s one of those things where, like the thing I love about the idea of tying personal KPIs to departmental or organizational KPIs is, like we did an episode we talked about purpose and motivating people through purpose, and one of them, the Sparks of Purpose we talked about there was Achieve, and when you are able to kind of see how your role in the organization affects everyone else, and it’s clear about what success and achievement looks like, and how the internal succession is. If I’m nailing it all the time, and I’m lifting my department up, then that’s my that’s my ticket to the higher achievement, or even the Spark of Being Part of Something, if you’re a part of an organization that’s moving towards a common goal, and you know how what you do every day benefits or impacts everyone else, that’s a motivating factor.

[JAMES]: Loyalty to Others, right? If you know how your role is advancing your team, your department, these are, purpose is essential in terms of creating high motivation and enthusiasm in employees.

[COBY]: Yeah absolutely, and the other thing, I think I want to add to talking about KPIs is I always like to talk about the difference between Contribute and Attribute. So we have a little video on our our YouTube channel, we have a Know The Difference series, we talk about Contribute vs Attribute in terms of performance and measurement of success. And the difference is important because contribute is when we play a part of an effort, or we have limited control over an outcome, a goal, or a result, or a success. That the efforts that we make are something that we are contributing to, we’re a part of the win, we’re not the cause of the win. Whereas attribute is the opposite. It’s when the things that have been completed, we have the control over or we are the main driver behind that. Our efforts in the success, our efforts can be attributed to us. And it’s one of those things where it’s important to understand the subtle differences between things that we play a part of and things that we are completely responsible for, when talking about performance. Because if you’re holding someone accountable for things that they only play a part in, that is very difficult place to be successful in, right? If your efforts only contribute towards the success of something, like you know, if your efforts as a manager may not be able to be a direct line towards the company improving profitability. You play a part in that, the way you lead your department, your team but you are not responsible for that. So that’s an unfair measurable to hold you to. But if your team is producing higher performance, if you’re using Performance Management systems properly, and your team has a better performance output, then that is attributed to you.

it’s important to know that difference. [JAMES]: I mean you can’t really have an effective Performance Management strategy if you don’t have a clear idea of what the measurements are, right?

[COBY]: Yeah exactly, and if you’re and if your measurement, like this happens a lot like the contribute vs attribute piece is a lot more common at higher level positions. Like I mean we see like you know CEOs, Executive Directors, you know, organizational leaders, being held for, you know being held as responsible for something that they definitely play a part in, have influence over, but like you know they… like I remember when we we were working Economic Development, it was like the organization, how could this organization improve the GDP of the region? Well you know the organizations, they’re not the ones hiring jobs, or you know they don’t have that kind of impact. Sure they play a part in you know talent attraction, and business attraction, and all that other kind of stuff. But you can’t measure the performance of an organization, you know based on the GDP growth, right?

[JAMES]: You cannot attribute growth of GDP to a regional Economic Development agency. Or even a provincial agency cannot be responsible for the the GDP growth. Because there are so many other contributing factors, you know there are so many other pieces at play. You can attribute the conditions, right? That lead to economic growth and stability, you know if they’re responsible for creating those conditions.

100%.

But yeah it’s a really important topic that I think I’m really excited to be talking about it, because I think more people need to grasp an understanding of the difference be between Contribute and Attribute, and yeah, without that, it’s going to be hard to really measure and reward performance.

[COBY]: Well and this is just, and these are the kind of approaches that we take when we try, and where we work with organizations and clients about about improving their Performance Management. We try to make them realize that your Performance Management is the key to your performance. So let’s put in some measurables, let’s connect the employees daily actions to organizational success, and let’s measure people on the things that they can, that we can attribute to them, and other things that they just contribute to. These are some fundamental process, tips and stuff like that we often, kind of get people going ‘oh I didn’t even think about it that way?’ and we’re like, how can you not? Like you know, if you are really focused, if you really are performance focused, then you need to understand performance.

[JAMES]: Yeah absolutely now I think these are three really great questions, you know that we were able to give some good short answers to. So this is the end of season one for Diagnosing The Workplace. We’re really excited to kind of come be completing the first season of the podcast, and honestly a whole lot’s not going to change in season two because I think the format, and the response that we’ve had from this first season has been fantastic. So thank you to people who are actually still listening to us. It amazes me that you haven’t gotten tired of our ranting, or mostly my ranting, at this point. But we appreciate you.

[COBY]: Yeah no it’s actually really encouraging that more and more people, like we have regular increases in our listener and our downloads, which is amazing that we’re not turning people away. But yeah I don’t think we’re going to do a lot different in season two. I think we will do more of these kind of Q&A questions, I think we’ll try and do more engagement in responding to questions from listeners, I think we’ll talk a little bit more about about leadership, we really only started talking about a little bit kind of at the end of the season. I think that might be more popular topic based on kind of the responses that we get. But honestly, this is the chance for listeners to kind of say “hey why don’t you guys try this in season two, reach out to us and we’re happy to take those thoughts and ideas.

[JAMES]: I’d love to do more listener engagement, you know finding ways to actually engage and talk to our audience. If you’re listening, yeah connect with us on LinkedIn, well we usually throw the information in the show notes where you can get a hold of us, reach out anytime and if you’ve got suggestions on how we can improve, or topics that you’d like to hear us talk about, or questions that you want us to answer in our next Q&A, shoot us an email, drop us a line on LinkedIn, whatever works.

[COBY]: Absolutely all right so I think I’ll do so a quick wrap up. So yeah so we talked about three main areas. We talked about ideas around how to make Integrity Leadership impact your decision making. Part of with Integrity Leadership and with frameworks around guiding how you lead people, it’s important to be able to know the kind of questions that you want to ask yourself kind of in the moment to be able to guide the decision making processes. Because one of the biggest challenges with leading is being able to kind of handle the unfamiliar situation. So having a framework and in a series of of ideas or concepts you can kind of funnel your the complex decisions through will allow you to help build some confidence in your ability to lead. And hopefully you’ll embody those good practices as the more you use them. And to make it a more of a natural process. We talked about how workplace culture and processes are really important and they really need to not be separated. That we cannot be be pulling and looking at our processes as being completely in a silo away from other processes, but also from our culture. That if we’re going to be putting effort into things like recruitment, we should also be considering the context of the culture that we’re in. And how maybe our culture impacts our employer brand, our ability to retain, and all this other aspect. Otherwise we’re going to kind of be tying a hand behind our back as we try and put all these you know expensive processes into place. It’s important to realize the context of our workplace is really lives within our organizational culture. We talked about Performance Management, the idea of if you care about performance, you should care about Performance Management and Performance Management reviews. That they are not something that you should be springing on people with new ideas, or new grievances, or new problems they haven’t heard before. And some good advice would be connecting someone’s individual key performance indicators to the those of the organization or of their department. So it’s linked to how what they do every day matters to the growth and success of the entire organization. And that will include you know ideas of that of those progressions really should be how what feeds into our internal succession planning. And that we should be holding people to the things that we can attribute to them, and not expecting them to be measured by things that they can, that they merely contribute to. All right so that about does it for us. So for a full archive of our podcasts and access to the video version hosted on our YouTube channel visit our website at roman3.ca/podcast. Thanks for joining us.

[ANNOUNCER]: For more information on topics like these don’t forget to visit us at roman3.ca. Side effects of this podcast may include improved retention, high productivity, increased market share, employees breaking out in spontaneous dance, dry mouth, aversion to the sound of James’s voice, desire to find a better podcast…