Full Transcript Below
[ANNONCER]:
Breaking down everyday workplace issues and diagnosing the hidden sickness, not just the obvious symptom. Our hosts, James and Coby.
[COBY]:
Did we lose a patient?
[JAMES]:
No, that’s just my lunch.
[COBY]:
Hey, thanks for joining us. I’m Coby, he’s James. And we’re going to do something a bit different today. We’re going to answer some questions posed to us by you, our faithful listeners.
[JAMES]:
Yeah, what I like about these Q&A sessions that we’ve been doing on and off is that some of them are fantastic, direct questions that we’ve received from LinkedIn or email, and others represent conversations that we’ve had with people who have followed up with us after listening to the podcast. So it’s really a great opportunity for us to engage with people, ask, answer questions, hear what they’re thinking. So please continue to reach out to us if you’ve enjoyed the podcast and want to explore these concepts in more detail. We, as you’ve probably figured out, we like to talk.
[COBY]:
Absolutely. I very much enjoy these too, because like, you know, these are, again, great. Again, these are more questions are kind of a reflection of great conversations we’ve been having that we want to be able to explore kind of, you know, through this. So I do think that it’s great that we’re trying to bring stuff that’s topical in front of mind for people. So I always enjoyed this as well. All right, but let’s stop yammering. Let’s jump in. So I’ll ask you the first question, James.
[JAMES]:
Okay, sure.
[COBY]:
So, James, why do many recognition programs fall short?
[JAMES]:
Yeah, really? I think the biggest reason is because companies are really trying to find that one, or maybe to boxed programs that will fulfill the needs of their employees to feel recognized for their work. I mentioned in a previous episode, actually, about a manufacturing client who had implemented a new recognition program. Employees and managers could nominate people to receive a gift card. And I mean, even though the gift cards were like $50, up to $100, depending on what it was, they were still, they were getting less than 20% of their employees actually participating in the program. And it was a major, it was a big shock and a major challenge for them. And we’ve seen other programs that are focused on a point system where employees can earn points for doing different things.
[JAMES]:
So in lieu of actually showing people that you appreciate them, you’re going to give them a point so that they can buy something useless from your company store or. That’s a little unfair. But again, these programs are not having a significant impact and the problem is that even though, you know, these are well intentioned, they are developed as a way to show appreciation and recognition to employees, but they fall short because they focus on showing recognition in only one manner. And although a lot of recognition programs have gotten so much better at showing recognition in a timely manner and are even developed from an authentic standpoint, they still miss that crucial element of is this appreciable? Are we showing recognition in a way that people actually appreciate and understand that communication style?
[COBY]:
And I mean, and so the episode that you or that we talked about recognition, and that example was the episode what makes employee engagement actually work. So if this is of interest to, you, feel free to check that
[JAMES]:
I am glad you can actually remember what the episode. I just know I rant about stuff.
[COBY]:
But, yeah, in that episode we definitely talked about the key to recognition is you understand that recognition has to be timely, authentic, and appreciable. And if it’s not hitting those three things, then it’s likely not hitting its mark. But aside from that, those three things are really important for everyone to just consider while they’re trying to decide any kind of form of recognition. Those three things are important, whether it’s personal recognition, organizational recognition, or whatever. But separate from that is the point that you were saying that they’re trying to all give people stuff. And largely, you’re right, a lot of programs, a lot of recognition kind of, you know, box programs or even a lot of the recognition programs that kind of come from, like, you know, big award events and stuff like that are usually very heavy on the giving people something, you know, that those, you know, gifts or whatever it is. Right. And that, I think, is. Is a really important point for people to be aware of, is that we tend to rely too heavily on just a couple methods. We boil everything down. We kind of use the same two or three tricks in all of the complex ways that we try and show recognition. It kind of all boils down to two or three strategies. And those two or three strategies tend to be saying something nice to someone, like a verbal thank you or just, hey, good job. Which again, is great. Doing something nice, providing someone a nice effort or doing something or a nice gesture for somebody. And then the third one is giving something nice. These are the gifts. These are the kind of. Those kind of symbol cards, the awards. Yeah, exactly right. Those three things are the most common. They’re not bad. But what I think is where we are causing things to fall short is we tend to go back to the well of saying something nice, doing something nice or giving something nice too much. And we’re not realizing that those three methods don’t work for everybody. And if we’re only using one of them or even two of them, you know, we all understand appreciation and recognition in different ways.
[JAMES]:
Yeah. And the programs that you implement are what we, what I think the most important thing that I want to get across to somebody listening to this who’s wondering why their recognition program is not hitting the mark, it’s not doing what they, what it’s designed to do, is that when you’re, if you’re trying to implement a boxed solution, one solution that will hit everybody, that will affect everybody, you are probably just beating your head against the wall. It’s going to be a lot of frustration because you’re trying to implement a complicated solution, a solution that has multiple steps on people who are complex and they’re messy. And what each person wants and needs not only is unique to them, but can change over time. So understanding the individuals that you are trying to recognize will always provide you with a better outcome than a standard boxed solution. And it’s not that the standard solutions are not good, it’s that they’re not good enough. If you want to make it apparent throughout the organization that you are authentically trying to show recognition to people and say thank you or however you say that for their efforts.
[COBY]:
Because, I mean, like, I think a good example of why a sincere effort falls flat is kind of the idea of, to some people, saying a sincere thank you really does have a great meaning. It really does. Something that if it comes from someone they respect, if it’s said with every good intention that can mean the world to some people, then there’s others that if they’re just words and even if it is said with all sincerity and, you know, and again, all real, true effort made for someone they respect, it doesn’t resonate with them. It’s just words that they hear. And it’s the same thing with a lot of these programs that give something away. Some people, those symbols, those tangible pieces, those gift cards, those awards are something that they will smile about for years.
[JAMES]:
Yeah.
[COBY]:
Other people, it’s a yes, thanks put in their pocket and they never think of it again.
[JAMES]:
Yeah, well, and it’s like the service awards. I know people who will hang their service awards in their office and it’s a point of pride. Service awards are not bad.
[COBY]:
Right.
[JAMES]:
Award ceremonies are not bad. Gift card programs are not bad. It’s really like, so you talk about the, you, the verbal thank you. I actually like that. I like if as long as it comes, you know, it is timely, authentic, and appreciable. It makes me feel good when I’ve done something well and somebody sees that and goes, hey, you did a really good job on that. I mean, that is a way that I feel, recognized. It’s not the only way that I feel recognized, which is another key piece that we probably don’t get and need have time to go into all the details of. But understanding the motivations of different people is going to be far more important than any one standard solution that you try to implement.
[COBY]:
Yeah. So at risk of making this question kind of go a little long, I think it wouldn’t hurt for us to kind of talk about the kind of solution that we use in these kind of situations. So one of the things that we do when we talk to organizations that are trying to improve their recognition programs or trying to figure out how is it they can be more impactful with what they’re already doing. We have a program that we call sevenfold recognition, and it really kind of falls on this idea of the way that you’re expressing recognition to people. Might not be landing with them because you’re only trying to use one or two methods to say it. Either. You’re only saying it through giving something nice, or even, or doing, or a verbal thank you. And again, only some people that hits with, like I said, with the manufacturing was like, what, 20 -25% of people were. It was actually hitting.
[JAMES]:
It was less than 20. I don’t remember the exact numbers. I think it was around twelve to 15.
[COBY]:
But a significantly small number of people in this whole organization. So without going into the whole program, I can give you the highlights of it. So the whole. The idea is that when we say the most common ways that we talk about recognition is saying something nice, doing something nice, and giving something nice. Those are three of what we say is seven methods to show recognition. So most of the time we’re using less than half of the different ways people understand and value recognition and feeling appreciated. So to give you the whole seven, and I’ll actually put a link to some content around symbol recognition in the show notes in case this is something that really resonates with people. But the seven methods are encouraging feedback, which is the same, saying something nice to thank you, the positive, you know, responses, and, hey, you did a great job on x.
[JAMES]:
Exactly, thank you.
[COBY]:
Second is meaningful efforts. This is the doing something nice. This is the, you know, small little gesture little. I picked you up a cup of coffee. You know, I did some. I did some of the work for you before you got here, just to help you out those little efforts. The third is concrete symbols. This is the giving something nice. These are the service awards or the gift cards or everything else like that, too. But then separate from those common three, there’s four other ones. The next is undivided attention. It’s when you talk to someone, you’re not on your phone or you’re not half reading while you’re having a conversation. You’re showing them that you’ve carved out enough time to give them your full attention.
[JAMES]:
You appreciate them enough to put other distractions aside and focus on them.
[COBY]:
Exactly. To some people, that changes the world. The next is personal connections. This is about having that sense of familiarity and camaraderie. It’s that sense of, you know, feeling, that belonging and feeling the. Almost like the casual relationship that you build within your workplace with people. Like, it’s about creating work friends. To some people, if they’ve got that sense of, you know, that connection, that belonging, that being included and having, like, you know, side jokes and, you know, little things like that can be the most meaningful way that they understand recognition.
[JAMES]:
Yeah.
[COBY]:
So number six is professional independence. This is giving the person the respect and the freedom to do the job the way that they know it needs to be done. It’s about not trying to limit the amount of restrictions you put on where they work, when they work, how they work, and trusting them to deliver with a lot less oversight or a lot less. Again, restrictive kind of ties that hold them to the nine to five desk order.
[JAMES]:
And this has been, for me, other than that, encouraging feedback. This is the big one for me. Give me the goalpost and get out of my way and let me do what I need to do the job well. And that level of freedom, to me, shows that I am appreciated and that I am valued, right?
[COBY]:
Absolutely. And the last one is skill mastery. And this is about acknowledging the abilities and appreciating the expertise that someone has. And sometimes it’s about going to them for advice. Sometimes it’s giving them, you know, leads on projects. Sometimes it’s about, you know, just, you know, having this person’s abilities be something that is like the. The go to or the. The defining characteristic of their work. Like, it’s holding their work in high standard and being very, you know, appreciated for what you bring to your job. And honestly, this is a big one for me. This is the one that probably has the most impact on me is the acknowledgement of expertise and abilities. And what’s so interesting about these seven methods is that they are about the everyday, where a lot of the other programs out there are about the like kind of the automated response or the, when you hit certain deadlines or hit certain points or you’ve earned.
[JAMES]:
Enough points that you can now be recognized.
[COBY]:
Yeah, exactly right. And where these are about more about the everyday conversations or the everyday interactions, they’re the everyday casual engagements of your team and your manager and everything else like that too. And that’s where real recognition has the most impact. And which is why we say when we try and advise on programs that are existing, we don’t say throw the programs out because there’s nothing wrong with the programs, but it’s understanding these seven methods augment programs like you wouldn’t believe.
[JAMES]:
And it makes it more meaningful for people if so, we’ve talked, I mentioned the terms timely, authentic, and appreciable. And in other conversations we’ve probably brought up those three dimensions. But to show recognition in, at work, those three elements need to be in place. It needs to be timely. I mean, waiting, if somebody does a good job in January and you don’t recognize them until your Christmas party in December, that’s not timely. Thank you very much for the work that you did eight months ago. Not timely. It also needs to be authentic. And the risk of boxed programs is that they can feel very inauthentic because you’re doing it’s blanket statements. It’s, it’s not personalized. And it’s hard to feel that authentic sense of recognition and appreciation if it’s not personalized and appreciable is really what we’ve been talking about with the seven methods is that it needs to be in a form that the person appreciates and understands and wants.
[COBY]:
And the other thing too is knowing what preferences your team or you have can be what really breaks this stuff open. Like, I mean, James and I, we worked together for way too long, but it’s funny because, you know, but we still kind of live and breathe this up every day, like again. So James really does prefer that encouraging feedback, that verbal thank you. And honestly, that is something that I never think about naturally, because a thank you to means nothing. Complimenting my skills or complimenting my actions don’t care, just rolls off me. I don’t even process it. So it’s not something I think to do unless I actively, you know, intentionally make that effort. So I know when I’ve taught, trained myself to make sure that when we, James and I, are working together, that it’s something that I don’t take for granted. I don’t take for granted that, you know, that he understands that I appreciate or I recognize the good work he does. So I make the effort to know his preference and I show it.
[JAMES]:
And it’s not about every time a person walks in the room, you need to acknowledge or thank them. If it becomes routine like that, it loses the authenticity.
[COBY]:
Absolutely. Yes. Like, you know, it’s, it needs to come from something of substance. Because if it’s just give out twelve thank yous every day. No, no, that’s something that just waters everything down and robs it of its authenticity.
[JAMES]:
Yeah.
[COBY]:
And I mean, like, you know, but I also know that like back to our differences, that I really value the meaningful efforts. And I know that, like, you know, you are usually the first person in the office when we’re in the office together and you go out of your way to make sure that, you know, I’ve got a cup of tea waiting for me when I walk in the door. And that’s something that I know that you intentionally do as just a sign of, you know, of just of appreciation. And it’s something that, again, not something that’s your dominant feeling that, you know, you intentionally do that as a small, meaningful effort.
[JAMES]:
Yeah, I mean, I, we both drink tea through the day. We both have our teaspoon with us now. So the extra little bit of effort to just make sure that the water’s hot when you come in isn’t. It doesn’t take much out of my day, but I know that you’re going to show up and you’re going to want a cup of tea. So why not make that small effort that I know would be appreciable?
[COBY]:
And you don’t understand how, and that’s very meaningful to me, that someone put the effort into something when I wasn’t here. And that means a lot to me. It doesn’t, you know, without me telling you that or though you know nothing about me, you might not even think of that. So that’s just the reality of why this stuff makes different even again. You and I are very similar in a lot of ways, but even these subtle differences improve our working relationship. So when this knowledge, when this ability to kind of just have a bit of insight and how people, you know, generally feel appreciated and recognized can do wonders to the morale of a team, because it’s about making the authentic effort to showing them recognition that they require.
[JAMES]:
I know we’ve got to move on to other questions, but I think one of the biggest, one of the best examples of this, and I love the visual because I can see it so perfectly still, is when were delivering this program and there was conflict already existing between the executive, between the director and their personal assistant. And the director sincerely was trying to say thank you, and literally would just say thank you all the time, but she would say thank you while she’s checking her email or looking at her phone or doing. Because they had 57 other things that they had to do that day. Their do executive, their assistant needed their undivided attention. That is how they felt valued. And that shift, that understanding of one person was authentically trying to say it, trying to show recognition. The other person did not feel it by any stretch of the imagination. It changed their working relationship. And it was such a fantastic aha. Moment of, oh, this person’s not terrible. They just are showing recognition in the way that they want to feel it.
[COBY]:
Right.
[JAMES]:
Anyways, recognition is a fantastic topic and it is really important in developing your employee experience if you want to do it well. Understand the different ways that people understand and show and appreciate recognition. Don’t throw the baby with the bath water. Your recognition programs are good. They can better.
[COBY]:
Absolutely. No, that’s great. All right, let’s move on to the next question.
[JAMES]:
All right, our next question is, why do many teams give up on their people and culture initiatives?
[COBY]:
Right. This is something that we do see. It’s funny because we often see it kind of retroactively, like, you know, when we’re talking to an organization about, like, you know, their issues around talent attraction or their issues around, or they’re trying to things around wellness or whatever, and. And they’re like, well, we tried that a year ago and it didn’t fizzle, though. So, you know, or we invested all this money into these trainings, and then, like, you know, a week later, it all went back to normal and this and that and the other thing. And that’s something that we hear of a lot. And it’s funny cause in a large way, the past failures of these initiatives is one of the biggest hurdles when trying to help them resolve issues, because we always hear that, well, we already tried that and that didn’t work. So what else you got? And, you know, so it is really important for people to be kind of. Be kind of aware of you know, that bias can actually be something that is a huge roadblock. But I digress. When it comes to a lot of these things, it’s really about not understanding the complexity of them. Like, your training initiatives and your mentorship programs are a good example because a lot of training is, again, we built a training platform and system. People can take training whenever they want, but no one’s really taking it or carving at the time or no one’s finishing it or this and that. And the other thing, and a lot of it is because of the sense of just putting it there and checking the box so it’s there and thinking that it will do all the work for them is where a lot of the problem comes from. Like, one of the things that we say is as great as a movie, as field of dreams was, if we build it, they will come is not a thing. That is the worst kind of, like, mantra that is holding so many organizations back, because just putting things there for people does not really move the needle any kind of way that you want it to. And a lot of that falls back to that, not understanding the complexity of things, and this is. And they turn into chaos solutions. We invested something. We put this big push behind it. Now no one’s using it. Big loss. You know, employees don’t want to be trained. Training doesn’t work. And it really just kind of poisons all the other efforts. But a lot of it is that fully not getting the complexity of these initiatives or of these programs, and it ends up what hurts them and why they give up on them.
[JAMES]:
Yeah. And I always go back to early in my career being told to shadow or basically, they, the company had an unofficial mentor or buddy system, which is a fairly common thing for new hires. Get connected with somebody who is. Who’s been in the organization for a while, who can show them the ropes, who can, you know, help them acclimatize to the organizational culture, the norms, all of these things. It makes sense. It makes sense as long as there’s not rampant job dissatisfaction throughout the entire organization. Because I remember, like, the thing that I learned from my mentor was carry a notebook and look like you’re doing like you’re busy and nobody will ask you a thing.
[COBY]:
Right.
[JAMES]:
So I had a clipboard that folded over that I would carry around and make sure that if I was going anywhere, I was going fast, because if you’re walking fast and you’re carrying a notebook, then you’re obviously on your way to do something important. Best piece of advice I got in my early career, I was the busiest person in the office. Right. Talk about a chaos solution though, right?
[COBY]:
Yeah, absolutely.
[JAMES]:
A well intentioned program that really if done properly can be, can make a substantial difference helping to onboard people through these mentorship. It builds relationships, connections like there are so many good aspects of it, but if done without understanding what is actually.
[COBY]:
Going to be taught.
[JAMES]:
Yeah, it’s. Anyways, I just keep going back to that example in my mind because one, I think it’s hilarious. And knowing what I know now, how on earth we ever got away with it is another question.
[COBY]:
But nobody. But it’s the idea of. Yeah, that sounds like a program that was implemented to fulfill a task or fulfill a. A goal and something that was on paper. But the, but again, the complexity of what it takes to make this accessible wasn’t fully understood and buy in wasn’t created with the mentors and all this other kind of stuff like that too. It sounds like. Yeah, it sounds very much like a chaos solution. And I think like where mine goes when it comes to kind of these things are kind of two things that pop up earlier. It’s kind of wellness programs and training initiatives because a lot of those are built with as performative solutions. It’s stuff that looks good. Which is why in wellness specifically we see this overemphasis on physical health a lot in wellness programs because those are very visible performative pieces. It’s like, you know, it’s gym memberships or it’s putting like gyms into the offices or if it’s like, you know, improving, like, you know, healthy eating challenges and stuff like that. Whereas where a lot of them, where a lot of really meaningful wellness programs come is they are about resolving issues that are hurting emotional health or mental health, but those aren’t as visible or as easy to kind of see this see happening. So they tend to be less common and less, you know, again, less invested in.
[JAMES]:
I suppose they are more difficult though. Like legitimately they are more difficult because they are tend to be more individual. But again, understanding the individual is how you are going to get the most out of these programs. And boxed solutions rarely work well.
[COBY]:
Yeah, and again, going back to the training thing I said before, sometimes it’s about, again, we, the company will build their own LMS system or they’ll sign training dollars and then push everyone to fill the fill to get their training, spend their training dollars, but they don’t really provide the ability to use any of the training in the workplaces or anything like that. So it’s really just a matter of spending the money so you don’t lose it for next year. You know, those are, again, the chaos solutions that you don’t get the complexity of how to make them successful. So again, why teams often give up on people and culture initiatives. Performative solutions is a very common one where the company’s trying to do a bit of, again, easy to see, easy to answers if you build what they will come kind of solutions. But.
[JAMES]:
But the other tick box solutions.
[COBY]:
Exactly. Yes. But the other side of it too is even when they actually are really trying to do the right thing, sometimes they’re sold what they are told is a complete solution. But the solution that they’re being provided is, again, is a complicated solution, not a complex solution. Kind of going back to what you said earlier where it’s about, here’s something that you can incorporate this big program that will do all these different things, but a lot of this, these programs were based on, again, incomplete understanding of what, of how complex a lot of these issues are. And actually a great example of that is going back to recognition. Like, I mean, talking about, you know, the gift card programs or the point programs, these are things that companies have paid into and bought and spent a lot of money on…
[JAMES]:
And software to support and apps and like, and training for the manager, ton of money on recognition programs.
[COBY]:
But again, these are incomplete solutions that are sold as complete solutions because they’re sweeping organizational wide. Everyone is treated the same or has access to the same opportunity solutions. But we know, again, even going back to your manufacturing example, the uptick’s not there. And then eventually the companies were like, well, geez, we invested x number of dollars into these programs and we spent all these money on gift cards and only, you know, less than 20% is actually taking up on them. Then they often give up and then they write them off.
[JAMES]:
And one of the main reasons why companies will implement recognition programs or these types of programs in general is to improve retention rates. We, retention is huge and it is costly to replace people. So we want to keep people as long as possible, which is an admirable goal.
[COBY]:
Absolutely.
[JAMES]:
But it doesn’t work if people don’t actually connect with what you’re trying to do. And so, as you said, companies will spend a tremendous amount of money and then they’ll look at their retention rates and it hasn’t changed. So obviously, recognition is not the problem. It has to be something else.
[COBY]:
Yeah, absolutely. Or, yeah, or recognition doesn’t work or this. But again, it’s the idea of we tried it…
[JAMES]:
Tried it didn’t, it didn’t change the numbers. So we’re not going to try that again.
[COBY]:
Exactly. And that is one of the biggest problems is they failed to have a winning strategy and the strategy that they had, you know, disappointed them. So therefore they give up on trying anything ever again or investing in this ever again. And then it’s just the reality of, well, you’re still going to have these problems even though you don’t want to resolve or you don’t want to reinvest in these solutions done properly, or where you’re going to actually have, where this success is going to come from. So it’s why we often say it’s not about replacing programs, it’s about augmenting what you already have. Because again, it’s very rare that these programs have no impact. It’s just how much augmentation they need to actually hit the goals that they kind of promised you. And sometimes it’s just a matter of, you know, salespeople not necessarily giving, you know, selling you on the best case scenario, not the most realistic scenario, but that’s a whole other thing. But again, it’s about the idea of why teams give up on initiatives is again, they don’t understand what it takes to have them be successful because they either a want them to look a certain way and they think success looks a certain way, or they’ve been sold a complete solution. That’s not a complete solution.
[JAMES]:
And sometimes it’s also a matter of we get into this idea that in order, the only way that we can show recognition, or the only way that we can show, the only way that we can do it equitably is to do it the same for everybody.
[COBY]:
Right.
[JAMES]:
Which is a misunderstanding of the term equitably.
[COBY]:
Exactly. It’s thinking of it as equally.
[JAMES]:
Yeah, I mean, doing, in order for it to be equitable, each person needs to appreciate and understand it. Not each person gets the exact same thing, regardless of whether or not they appreciate or, understand it.
[COBY]:
Well, actually, going back to the common strategies of, let me talk about, with recognition in the first question. You know, the idea of giving something nice to somebody, if everyone is, has the opportunity to get the same thing, then we’re trying to be equal and fair to every person. But that’s maybe where that fundamental linchpin problem is that if every person is, if your strategy is based on equality, giving everyone the same thing, that’s a fundamental problem. Because again, it’s about, it should be about equity, giving people what they need. And if, you know, someone needs, you know, to be told, you know, somebody’s. To have their recognition shown again through concrete symbol, that’s great. Others need to be shown through undivided attention. You know what I mean? Then that’s about really being more equitable in how we approach recognition.
[JAMES]:
Yeah. Whenever we talk about this, the same image always comes to mind. It’s been around for ages, been used in many different forms. I’ll try to articulate an image properly, but essentially there’s, you know, three people standing in front of a fence. Each person is forced to be with three boxes, essentially, for it to be equal, each person receives one box. For it to be equitable, the tallest person can actually see over the fence. Without a box, the shortest person might need two boxes in order to see over the fence, where the person who’s kind of. Of middle height might only need one box to see over the fence. Giving people what they need to be able to see over the fence is what we’re trying to do. Should be what we’re trying to do. If you want to make it completely equal, give each person one box. Two out of the three will be able to see over the fence, but one person won’t.
[COBY]:
Yeah, you’re right. So sometimes it’s a matter of, we’re looking at these programs, no matter what they are, whether they’re wellness or whether they’re training, whether they’re recognition, is that giving everyone access to the same thing and thinking that as long as we’re equal, we’re doing it right, that is a fundamental.
[JAMES]:
Well, that’s a performative solution.
[COBY]:
Yes, exactly. Maybe that’s going to ties back to that. So I think we covered those pretty well, although number two really kind of blown it into number one in there at the end. But I think let’s move on to the third question. So I’ll ask this one to you.
[JAMES]:
Okay, sure.
[COBY]:
So this says, I’m a new manager. I see lots of things that need to improve, but I do not have the authority to change them. What should I do?
[JAMES]:
Oh, yeah, this is always fun. The most important thing in this situation, if you are, I’m assuming this is a person who is new into management, not a person who is an experienced manager in a new role. So I’m gonna. That’s how I’m gonna look at it. New into management. The most important thing that you can do, first and foremost, is manage expectations. Learn how to manage those. Your own expectations as well as the expectations above and below you. If you have identified areas that will improve operational efficiency, that is a really good thing to do. And you need to understand who would be the person who’s going to be making the decision. So if you have, if you report, you would have a direct supervisor. You need to work within the system that you are given, especially as a new manager. You need to be seen to be to respect the structures that are in place. Don’t try to go immediately to the CEO or the director. If you’ve got a couple people in between you and that authority level, make the case to, you need to tie it to either a the business case. How is the company going to actually save money, time, resources, whatever by implementing your new strategy. That is an excellent way of crafting the narrative. And even though you don’t have the authority, you can pitch somebody else on why they should care about it. If you’re going to a direct supervisor, who then has to go to a direct supervisor to make the change, what motivation is that person who you are going to, what’s their motivation for moving it up? How is them making this change or supporting you to make this change going to help them in their career? Yes, it’s a bit of a selfish mentality. Who cares? The reality is, and if you can’t tie it directly to the business case or the person who you are reporting to is not necessarily solely motivated by the business case. If you want to make these changes, but you don’t have the authority to do it yourself, then you are going to have to craft the narrative that speaks to the motivation of the person that you’re talking to. And part of that is understanding, setting and managing expectations.
[COBY]:
You know, that’s really good advice. I think that just in general, for any manager, new or experienced, being able to set and manage expectations is just unbelievably invaluable skill. We actually did an episode, we talked about that in great detail, called the most over. What’s the most overlooked management skills. So check that episode out too. But the idea of the fact that you need to be able to manage expectations to those who you report to and those who report to you because you want to make sure that you’re on the same page, that people know what to expect, and that it’s clear that you all agree to what success looks like. Right? The other piece of it too is to consider psychological safety, right? I mean, if your manager generally good management advice is look to provide psychological safety to your team. Those who you do have direct authority over, make sure that you are ingraining psychological safety into the everyday actions that people speak up, share ideas, you know, talk about concerns, anything like that. And you also need to be aware of how much psychological safety exists with who you report to. Do you have the ability to kind of share these new ideas, these new initiatives, and, you know, and, you know, are you going to be, you going to face ridicule or retaliation? If you try and challenge a setup quote, which are things that you need to be aware of going into it, because sometimes organizations say they have an open door policy or they have, they are, they, you know, and they encourage employee feedback, but really they say that, and then they, behind closed doors, they judge it. We call that counterfeit psychological safety. So knowing that the reality that you work in is very important. But I think you’re right. Regardless of what the environment is, kind of great universal advice is that to get anyone to change requires them to buy in. And that has to start with understanding and speaking directly to the needs of your audience. Even if your supervisor does not have psychological safety, does not provide that, and you’re in risk of retaliation or ridicule. If they have priorities that they want and you can speak to how they can get what they want, that motivates them. If you’re not saying for me or for our team or for the company, if that’s not going to move them in a way that’s going to have them be on your side, then what will. And speak to your audience. And then when you and that supervisor, maybe who you’ve got on the same page as you have to go to their supervisor, then you need to do the same thing. What’s going to move them onto our side and speak to that audience? Because that’s really where change happens, is through buy in.
[JAMES]:
And eventually you will get to the business case at a level, usually, you know, senior leadership director level, at some point you’re going to run up against. Okay, how is making this change going to affect our bottom line? How is it going to improve? If it’s operational efficiency, then what is the anticipated result of that?
[COBY]:
Right.
[JAMES]:
So absolutely do not neglect that business case and understanding how you can actually make the business case for changing these things. The one other thing that pops to mind in terms of a caution, that I see too often with new managers, especially if this is your opportunity to prove yourself or you feel like this is your golden chance, sometimes people get a little too excited early into a new position like that. And when they identify these types of policies or practices that could have a direct impact on their team, they talk to their team about it first before and get the team excited about, oh, well, this person actually wants to help us improve X, Y and Z, and things are going to better, and they create an expectation that may be very difficult for them to follow through on.
[COBY]:
The employees think, okay, my supervisors agrees with us. So change is coming.
[JAMES]:
Yeah. And then that change doesn’t come for what could be any host of completely valid business reasons.
[COBY]:
Right. Or could it be that they have to get them their manager and then their manager?
[JAMES]:
Or could just be of. Takes a really long time to move a big ship.
[COBY]:
Yeah.
[JAMES]:
The problem that rises with that, though, is that you’ve now set an expectation with your team and going back to them and saying, not yet, not yet. Or I’ve passed it up and nothing’s happening. You either have, you either wear that yourself as a new manager, having let them down, having set expectations and failed to deliver, or you pass the buck onto the organization, which causes your team to not trust the people above you. Neither one of those solutions or outcomes is what you want as a new manager. So going back to understanding and setting and managing expectations is a crucial ability for your success. And it’s not just about, managing the expectations that others place on you. It’s managing the expectations that you create with your team and understanding what the damage that can be done if through. Really, I want to say, no fault of your own, but it is your fault if you. If you set those expectations. But more, rather than no fault, it’s more of a inadvertently, creating these expectations, it can cause so many problems for you. And as a new manager in your career, that’s going to follow you for a while. Fortunately, it gives you an opportunity to learn from past mistakes, but let’s try not to make those mistakes in the first place.
[COBY]:
No, that’s good advice. All right, so I think we provided some good answers for these three questions. so the only thing more to add, I think I’ll just jump into a quick summary.
[JAMES]:
No, I think I’m good.
[COBY]:
All right. So our first question was, why do many recognition programs fall short? Well, largely, it’s because the programs that we have usually are incorporated kind of big initiatives that kind of fall into the trap of not being timely, authentic and appreciable, or, and, or relying too heavily on three common ways to show recognition, which is saying something nice, doing something nice, and giving something nice. When we tend to oversimplify what recognition needs to look like, we, you know, hold on a recognition for a long time and give it to people all at once, or we lean too heavily one or two methods, we end up only appealing to a small portion of our workplaces and the rest don’t feel recognized. Having a much broader understanding, such as learning about the seven methods of recognition in our seven fold recognition program is a good place to start, is a great way to really kind of have a much broader view of recognition and looking to try and be more timely, authentic and appreciable. Our second question is, why do many teams give up on people and culture initiatives? Well, largely it tends to fall into two categories. One, they look for performative solutions that will look really good, look like they’re doing something, you know, easy to check boxes and think that they will have the success that they want, but really, a lot of times they only look effective when they may not be. The other common problem is people will think that they’ve been sold a complete all in one solution, but it doesn’t account for the uniqueness and kind of the complexity of the people in your workplaces. So sometimes these solutions can be helpful if we augment them with other programs, other resources and supports to make them a custom, complete solution, but usually right out of the box. Nothing works everywhere for everybody all the time. Now, third question is, as a new manager, well, how can I improve or how can I address things that need to improve without the authority to do it? And our best advice we can always give is to always manage expectations set and manage clear and realistic expectations, whether it’s to your team or whether it’s to who you report to. Because if you want things to happen, having things like the business case for why improvements need to exist is a good place to start. But really it’s about, if you want to make change happen, then you have to speak to the audience of every audience that is involved in the change and work your way to getting everyone on board by being able to customize the argument that will speak to the needs of your audience. Because eventually is a lot of times, you know, turning the ship can take, can take some time, and you need a lot of allies on your side because buy in is the fundamental piece. But all this kind of falls to, you have to be able to manage expectations of those you work with, and you have to be able to be aware of the environment that you’re in when it comes to things like psychological safety and everything like that. If you really want to have a long term impact, you need to be tactical, you need to be patient, and you need to get people on your side to work towards turning that ship. All right, so that about does it for us. For a full archive of the podcast and access to the video version hosted on our YouTube channel, www.roman3.ca/podcast thanks for joining us.
[ANNONCER]:
For more information on topics like these, don’t forget to visit us at www.roman3.ca. Side effects of this podcast may include improved retention, high productivity, increased market share, employees breaking out in spontaneous dance, dry mouth, a version to the sound of James voice desire to find a better podcast…
