Are Your Current People and Culture Strategies Resolving Problems Or Creating Chaos

[ANNOUNCER]:

Breaking down everyday workplace issues and diagnosing the hidden sickness, not just the obvious symptom. Our hosts, James and Coby.

[COBY]:

Did we lose a patient?

[JAMES]:

No, that’s just my lunch.

[COBY]:

Hey, thanks for joining us. I’m Coby. He’s James. And let’s get started with a question. It are your current people and culture strategies, resolving problems or creating chaos?

[JAMES]:

I think being able to answer this question honestly in your organization, it’s going to make a big difference in how your organization implements any new program, project, or strategy. We often hear clients tell us about projects or initiatives that they’ve implemented to try to improve morale or reduce the amount of burnout, or just overall try to improve employee engagement or the employee experience. But what happens far too often is that a program that’s developed with the best of intentions somehow ends up creating more frustration, more anger, or more disengagement than existed beforehand. And we call these types of situations Chaos Solutions. And I think it happens way more often than most people would actually suspect. And I think we see it so frequently because of the nature of our work. We’re often brought in after the fact to try to remedy these situations that have completely gone off the rails. And I think if I can give one piece of advice right off the bat that try to give you some answer or some value right from the very beginning, I think there’s two questions that you really need to ask yourself to have a bit of a critical reflection. And the first is you need to ask what needs to exist first before whatever it is that you’re trying to do is going to be successful. The other one is asking yourself, do you understand the complexity that’s involved in the situation, or are you looking for an easy answer? And if you can answer one or both of these questions before jumping into the next flavor of the month guru solution, you’re going to have a much greater chance at success.

[COBY]:

No, that’s well said. I think it might be helpful to take a bit of a step back and actually, let’s actually define what we mean by chaos solutions. Again, it’s a term that I think we’re hoping will be of great value to you once you’re done listening to this podcast, but to define it. It’s when you implement a strategy or a plan that you expect will have a transformative effect, but you have not done the prerequisite work to ensure that you have a foundation to build from. And what this does is it creates an unsupported and unsustainable endeavor that will ultimately cause more harm and turmoil then create a positive effect.

[JAMES]:

Yeah, I mean, basically, it’s when you’re trying to do something good, but it goes off the rails.

[COBY]:

Right.

[JAMES]:

And it ends up creating more harm than good in its essence. It’s really that something done with the best of intentions. We want to improve the way that people engage with us at work, but somehow, whatever we did, just the proverbial stuff hit the fan.

[COBY]:

Yeah.

[JAMES]:

It’s funny because I think it’s a common situation that many people find themselves in.

[COBY]:

No. And I really think that this idea of chaos solutions, when you try something with good intentions, but because you don’t really understand the complexity or you haven’t really thought the whole thing through, that ends up doing more harm than good. I mean, that’s a pretty common thing even beyond the workplace, right? Oh, yeah. It still reminds me of. My great aunt used to always say that a good home remedy for when you have a burn is butter. I suppose when you take butter out of the fridge and rub it on like a nasty burn, that cooling effect would feel like it’s doing something in the first little bit. But what you’re actually doing is you’re sealing the burn with grease, and the burn will pretty much always get infected because you’re rubbing grease on something that’s burning hot. Right. Ultimately, a very chaos solution. You’ve traded a burn for worse burn and possibly an infection. Very much a chaos solution.

[JAMES]:

I think another something that a lot of us can relate to. We saw a lot of chaos solutions during COVID          Whether we’re talking taking a horse deworming pill in order to cure Covid and then cause a whole host of other problems or the suggestion of a bleach enema, perhaps done with the best of intentions, but certainly causing more problems than they solved.

[COBY]:

Yeah, there was definitely a lot of. I mean, the one thing that I probably saw the most people talking about was drinking hand sanitizer.

[JAMES]:

Oh, my word. Yeah.

[COBY]:

Right. And again, let’s chalk Covid up to what it was. It was mass hysteria due to the onslaught.

[JAMES]:

And it was legitimately terrifying for a lot of people, especially early on.

[COBY]:

Especially.

[JAMES]:

Yeah. There’s no underselling or underplaying that. It was a huge, disruptive and terrifying time for a lot of people.

[COBY]:

Yeah. But the idea of drinking hand sanitizer, to me, actually, that sticks in my mind. But it’s also a great example, I think, of the chaos solution because you’re something that you don’t really understand the complexity of what you’re doing. And you end up doing more harm than good. And again, really a great use of the definition, but let’s move away from health care remedies. But really, I do think that those kind of paint are pretty easy to understand picture of what we mean by chaos solution. Because the reality is in our workplaces we often do try to improve things or implement something new, as we should.

[JAMES]:

We should always be looking to improve the way our processes, the way that we engage with people, the environment in which they work.

[COBY]:

Yeah. And when we do this kind of stuff, we will, sometimes we’ll take, like you were saying, the flavor of the month guru piece of advice that we thought might make a big difference. Or a lot of times when we’re smaller, businesses will look to the big players to see what they’ve done and stuff like that. But ultimately, I think where the problems come from when we try to make these transformative changes without really having a sophisticated understanding of all that’s involved, what needs to exist and the complexity of what we’re actually doing is when we end up again, undervaluing the need for real help, or the need for the right tools, or even the follow through is really a big part of it, too. If we don’t commit to how long it’s going to take to actually follow through on everything, that’s when this stuff happens. Because really, I think where chaos solutions come from, both in healthcare and in the workplace, is trying to, is the expectation that there’s definitely easy answers out there. You have to just find them and try them out and everything’s going to be great.

[JAMES]:

And I think we need to be clear that just because something didn’t work doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a chaos solution.

[COBY]:

Right.

[JAMES]:

We’re not talking about trying something new and it not working. There are a variety of factors that would play into really. I think the distinction going back to your definition, Coby, is that it has to be based on know intended, good, but either not understanding the complexity or not knowing what needs to exist first. And it’s not just we tried something, we prepared, we went through change management process, but for whatever reason it failed. It’s this, we jumped into trying something that we thought would be super helpful, but we didn’t understand the situation. And now, oh crap, everybody is frustrated and mad at us.

[COBY]:

Yeah, you’re right. I mean, it’s like the idea, just because you try a course of medication and it’s not working, doesn’t mean that it’s chaos solution. But it’s when you don’t do your homework and you try something that sounded really good, but you really do not have a sophisticated understanding of what you needed to do, and you end up shooting yourself in the foot and doing more harm than good. You’re right. There is that big distinction. Because, again, you’re right. Lots of things we try and we may put our full effort into it. We may go in with our eyes open and things still don’t work. That’s the reality.

[JAMES]:

That’s life.

[COBY]:

Yeah, exactly. But when you try and create something without fully understanding all the conditions or prerequisites required to make it work, what you end up creating can spiral out of control. And this is when the chaos happens. Like the unforeseen consequences, the natural consequences of not doing your homework and not really taking the time to be critically reflective to see what would have been the right steps and right moves and what were the prerequisites we really should have put some effort into.

[JAMES]:

Yeah. And what’s interesting, and taking this back to work environment. Right. Because that’s what our podcast is about. Workplace culture, people and culture, workforce solutions in general. And when we see these things happen, it really tends to be because of a lack of understanding of what needs to exist first. And that’s where, obviously, we are a little biased. We’re going to talk about the fact that you need to understand what’s happening in your workplace. You need to understand the environment that people work in. And having these diagnostic tools, the work that we do, is what allows us to see these chaos solutions kind of unfold. And then, all right, now things have gotten out of control, how do we actually fix it? Well, it starts with understanding and investigating your work environment.

[COBY]:

Yeah. And I mean, the need to really ensure that you’ve got that strong foundation that whatever you’re building will stand on. I think what we should spend the bulk of the time talking about is actually given some good examples of walking people through why a lot of the current stuff that people do pretty regularly ends up blowing up in their face. And what is it that they’re missing or they’re not putting in as a prerequisite. And I think I want to start with organizational change. Okay. So we do work around organizational change and supporting, especially things around cultural transformation and stuff like that. And trying to do that without the prerequisite of building trust in your workplace creates chaos solutions. It creates burnout, it creates camps where you have some people have information and some don’t. It divides the environment and it ends up creating a lot of turnover. And these are the results these are the chaos that comes from the solution of trying to implement organizational change without creating buy in and building trust early on. And it’s something that organizations really need to understand that if you’re trying to jump in and say, well, we’ll just do it and they’ll follow along or leave, well, that’s your recipe for a chaos solution around organizational change.

[JAMES]:

If you throw that out, you need to be ready for the fact that the second option is going to happen, if that’s your approach. What I find interesting about the organizational change piece is how prevalent the language of transformative change is becoming in change management in general. I had a great conversation with a gentleman recently who’s a change management professional and hey, hope you’re listening to this episode, too. We connected over LinkedIn after with the podcast, and they were really talking about how frequently this language of transformative change comes up in change management in general. And I find it really interesting how prevalent it is with companies understanding and wanting that transformative change, but not understanding necessarily the steps on how to get there. And some of our conversation was around what does that look like? How do you investigate that? And it’s encouraging to me in one hand because companies are understanding that there is the value in transforming your work environment, your workplace culture. And I’m encouraged and excited that it’s becoming more popular. But we still have this problem right now where unless you understand what needs to exist first or you understand the complexity of the situation, not look for an easy answer, you could end up with these chaos solutions which damages the whole brand or the whole movement around pushing more transformative change.

[COBY]:

Yeah, we’ve been involved in some big organizational changes around amalgamations and stuff like that. Right. And we’ve our own change management certification for organizational change. And we have great conversations with HR professionals, managers and change professionals who take that certification. But it’s interesting when you are implementing something significant, whether it’s a merger and acquisition, whether it’s new operational direction or kind of new leadership or whatever it is, in an organization that is abundant with camps, where there’s clicks or there’s groups, and you’ve got factions that kind of are against each other, that not resolving that first, or at least not having a strategy to resolve that in your organizational change management effort is what creates into a chaos solution. And we definitely saw this with some of the amalgamations where communication is limited and you’re not speaking to the different audiences in a way that’s actually going to resonate with them and create buy in, because one of the biggest, most important things that happens during organizational change is people need to shift from just thinking that the old way, the current way, the traditional way, is the right way. You have to move them from old is good, but the new is better. And that requires a big effort to kind of acknowledge, especially when you have long term staff or everything like that too, that if there’s complacency or if there’s just a real clinging to the old methods, but without the trust, without the good communication, without buy in, those types of efforts just unfold into massive amounts of chaos, which is why change is so chaotic. It’s because we get too focused on the process side of change that we forget about the people side, where the most of the change actually happens. And that’s why change management or change practices, change efforts tend to be the most chaotic.

[JAMES]:

Because people are complex.

[COBY]:

Yes. Right.

[JAMES]:

And if you try to implement a process solution, a step by step, this is the way we do it every time to a complex problem, you’re going to have frustration. And I love that you’re talking about buy in, because buy in, especially if you’re trying to change anything, you need to have people brought along. But again, the mistake that we often see people make is that buy in doesn’t happen once.

[COBY]:

Right.

[JAMES]:

It’s not a singular communication or even just getting people on board at the beginning and getting them. Yeah, okay. This could be okay. That buy in at one time will not necessarily sustain through the entire change unless you are communicating, unless you are keeping people apprised of what’s going on, going radio silent and allowing assumptions to jump in and derail the buy in of your employees or the people that need to be brought along with the change, is going to cause a chaos solution.

[COBY]:

Absolutely, yes. Buying is not something that you get and then check the box. Buying is something that you have to maintain.

[JAMES]:

You have to wake up every cultivate it over and over again.

[COBY]:

You have to wake up every day and be willing to get it again. And that needs to be the effort that you take into it. Managing change is without building on the foundation of trust. And buy in is definitely a path to chaos solution. Another one that we see an awful lot, and we’re seeing this more and more, is around employer branding.

[JAMES]:

Oh, yeah, right.

[COBY]:

When organizations are focused on creating a good employer brand, but they do that without doing anything to change the work environment, the culture that exists in their workplace.

[JAMES]:

Well, and you’re right, and I’ll try not to soapbox too much on employer branding because it’s going to be difficult for me. But the biggest frustration for me is that employer branding is not a marketing activity. It is not just about saying the right things because your brand is not what you tell people it is. It’s what people experience. Your employer brand is what your employees experience with you as an employer and that is what’s going to ring true. Everything else is just a communication activity. It’s a facade that will bring people through the door. But if that brand is not consistent from what you say to what you do, then you are not going to solve the problems that you think that you’re trying to solve and you’re going to create a chaos solution because you’ll be bringing people into your organization who will be frustrated, angry, disengaged, that they feel misled.

[COBY]:

Right? Yes. And then that will spiral out into creating a worse brand. Because you’re right, there is a certain amount of marketing communication activities that needs to exist in an effective employer branding strategy. Yes, but it should be based on something. Because if you’re saying we really care about our employee wellness and we’ve got great salaries and we’ve got very firm job security and leaders who are committed to optimizing the best performance and getting to know you and you don’t, that’s just lying.

[JAMES]:

People will find it out very quickly.

[COBY]:

Yeah, if you’re just getting really good at the communications and marketing pieces, but it’s based on nothing. If the emperor has no clothes, then what you’re doing is setting up every single person who’s going to come work for you to fail because they are coming to work at this place you’ve sold them. And when they show up and it’s not that place, it’s a bait and switch, then you are creating a whole bunch of new problems. You’re going to go from having a talent attraction problem to a talent retention problem and it’s going to end up getting out that you’re just a liar.

[JAMES]:

Yeah, it is so easy to do. Like candidates will do research on companies that they want to work for, or at the very least they should be.

[COBY]:

Doing research on both of them. Absolutely do.

[JAMES]:

For sure they do. And it’s really easy with the number of sites that are out there to allow people to express their opinions. People are far, far more likely to express a negative opinion online than they are to express a positive opinion online.

[COBY]:

Oh, yeah.

[JAMES]:

So if you are constantly generating these negative opinions, people are going to be more than happy to share their experience with others, whether it’s glass door reviews or any of the other sites or social media or Reddit or Twitter or whatever.

[COBY]:

Even just word of mouth.

[JAMES]:

Even just word of mouth. Because like attracts like. Right. The people who you are trying to attract probably have friends who are colleagues or professional networks around that same skill set, right? People talk and they love to talk, especially when they’re sharing a frustration. Like a bait and switch.

[COBY]:

Yes, absolutely. And I mean, if you are thinking that your employer branding efforts are really just going to be communication boxes to check, and then boom, you’ve nailed the employer branding task on your list and it’s going to massively improve your retention or your attraction and retention. Well, even if you do everything really well, you’ve got the greatest narrative and the greatest resources behind a really good sales pitch that may do a lot to improve your attraction. But if it’s just a lie, if you’ve just done the curb appeal of your organization and the walls are hollow on the inside when you drive by that great looking property and you’re like, wow, that’s an amazing looking house, but then there’s no walls or nothing on the inside, people will eventually find that out.

[JAMES]:

I’m going to say something and I’m just going to be blunt about it. If you take that approach in the consumer market where you don’t care about the follow through or the quality of your product and you’re just selling people on a lie, you don’t deserve to be in business. If you take that approach in the labor market where you don’t care about the quality, the environment, and it’s just a lie, you don’t deserve to be in business.

[COBY]:

Yeah, I’m going to have a hard time arguing with you on that.

[JAMES]:

Well, yeah, I’m not expecting much argument from you, but that is my firmly held belief. If all you’re doing is trying to trick people into buying your product or trick people into working for you, I don’t think you deserve to have a business at all. Now, does that actually change anything? No. Going to rant about it.

[COBY]:

But the reality is, though, a lot of people, again, and this is, I think that we both need off our soapbox.

[JAMES]:

Yeah, I know, because again, I warned you, though.

[COBY]:

You did, and I climbed up there with you. But the reality is when it comes to employer branding, it’s actually more. Again, it’s that lack of sophisticated understanding of the depth of the complexity of what you’re doing and what has to exist first for that to be effective. And you really have to understand that your ability to retain people should be the backbone of your employer brand. And if you don’t get that, then you really should need to do your homework before you jump into an employer brand strategy.

[JAMES]:

And like I’ve said dozens of times on this podcast, I don’t believe that people enter into these solutions with malicious intent. 99.9% of people have good intentions and they’re creating chaos solutions. The .1% I don’t care about you.

[COBY]:

Fair enough. So I think another good example of chaos solutions we commonly see is around wellness. Because again, wellness is a very important topic. Lots of people know how important it is. Candidates ask for it in interviews. We understand we need to reduce burnout to maintain productivity. So we get a lot of that. But a lot of the insertion of wellness, things like exercise programs, mindfulness activities, yoga, a lot of times those are just inserted into a work place, often into a culture that really is not designed for them to be well utilized or even effective.

[JAMES]:

Yeah, wellness is huge from a personal perspective, from an organizational perspective, because. There Are huge shifts in how people engage in work and why people engage in work and work life balance wellness, being able to take care of themselves as an individual is a much higher priority in many respects. And many companies are responding to this and trying to. Okay, well, let’s create a fun workplace. You mentioned earlier that oftentimes smaller companies will look at what the big guys do and try to implement those solutions. So, I mean, 20 years ago it was looking at Google and saying, oh, well, they’ve got beanbag chairs and pool tables, so we’re going to just put a beanbag chair and a pool table in the staff room and that will solve everything. It’s time tested and true that it doesn’t. We’ve come to that realization now. But the same principle still happens in terms of, if you’re trying to focus on creating a fun workplace, but you haven’t taken the time to remove the things that are making people upset, you’re not going to have the results that you want and that you expect, and the money and time that you used to implement these solutions are going to be wasted.

[COBY]:

No, I think that’s a good point, because whether it’s for wellness or whether it’s for engagement, that the idea of just inserting these new initiatives or these new chairs or whatever it is without removing the stuff that is removing, that is causing disengagement or causing burnout is step one right again, going back to burnout. If you think that instituting putting a treadmill in the break room will make up for the fact that everybody is extremely overworked. That’s not going to make a difference. Right. Just like putting a foosball table in the break room is not going to make up for the fact that someone’s boss micromanages them to death. Right. So realizing you have to remove the causes of burnout and the causes of disengagement is step one. But step two is you also have to realize that you have to kind of let the culture or the people within it acclimatize to utilize these new things. We’ve spoken with mindfulness consultants or wellness consultants that feel like they are set up to fail when they start doing work with organizations, because they’re just kind of dropped in and said, okay, now, everybody, let’s do our weekly yoga thing. But no one participates because the workplace culture that they’re in, no one’s allowed to show vulnerability, or no one’s allowed to even act like they need this or just kind of normalize that this is good, healthy practices are actually going to make a difference. Right. If we don’t actually prepare people, allow them to acclimatize and normalize what is needed to make these programs effective, then even if we do remove all the stuff that’s causing burnout and disengagement, if we don’t normalize what good, healthy practices look like, then that’s also setting ourselves up to fail.

[JAMES]:

And it starts with the leadership.

[COBY]:

Yeah.

[JAMES]:

So many of these things, especially you’re talking about psychological safety. And are people able to actually engage without having to put up a front? Leaders set the stage for that. And with this, you have to lead by example. It means not just dropping a solution in and running out the door, but showing people that it’s okay to engage in these programs can make a big difference.

[COBY]:

Yeah, I don’t think that means you have to be the first person in the front of the class doing the yoga with      Kind of. Of leading by example. But I think allowing for the vulnerability, allowing for the normalization of the right kinds of behaviors, right kinds of actions that need to exist there. Right. Because, again, part of the reason why ideas like putting a treadmill or a foosball table in the break room are kind of common when it comes to creating wellness or creating engagement is really just because of their box checking ability. Right. We’ve done this physical action, visible solution, therefore, success achieved. Right. But not realizing that just kind of like with change, you have to get up every day and be willing to get the buy in from your team in order to make this stuff last.

[JAMES]:

And what I find interesting is I remember working with a production facility that had. That they had

[JAMES]:

not really a workout room, but they had treadmill and a couple of different activity stations where people could be physical on their breaks. Well, if you’re in a production facility where you’re on your feet for eight or 10 hours at a time, when you have a break, you don’t want to go, necessarily go for a walk on a treadmill. There’s no allowance for the use of the great, yeah, you’ve got this treadmill that you’ve got half an hour for lunch, shove some food in your face and go run so that you can go back and stand at your station for another 4 hours. If you’re going to implement these solutions, you need to also consider allowing how and when people are able to engage in these solutions.

[COBY]:

Right. I think one of the things to keep in mind, too, is, again, why these are chaos solutions and not just failed attempts of a regular solution, is because when the business invests in a treadmill, just like in your examples, is perfect to use for it, then the lack of use frustrates the management team, and they say, well, these people, nothing makes them happy. We tried this. They didn’t use it. So therefore, we’re not going to try anything else because what’s the point? They’re not going to use it.

[JAMES]:

We spent this money, and it was a waste. And the employees look at it and go, they spent this Money. That’s a waste. Why didn’t they just give us all a 50 cent rate or whatever that could be? It’s the frustration that comes from the failed implementation.

[COBY]:

Exactly. Yeah. It creates lower morale, it creates a larger divide between the leadership team and the employees. And that’s part of that chaos is that things are worse than they would have been. And that’s what really is kind of what defines these. What defines these as chaos solutions. And not just failed attempts, but you touched on, I think, another good piece that we need to keep in mind, too, which is around psychological safety. I think that definitely relates very well to what you were saying before, but also kind of my next example that I wanted to mention was around implementing DEI solutions. Right. Because implementing DEi, like broad DEI solutions, or even just inserting things like antibias training and culture sensitivity training, those things can be valuable. But if you haven’t done the prerequisite work in creating psychological safety first, that’s when DEI programs become Chaos solutions. And I mean, going back to our last episode, we talked about counterfeit psychological safety. If you’ve created that performative psychological safety and then try and do these things, you’re going to be even worse off because you’ve made people who think they might be able to be psychologically safe, not psychologically safe. And then you implement these pieces around antibias training, or DEI, and ends up creating all kinds of conflict, and you end up almost like pouring gasoline on the place and then lighting a match. It can be the catalyst for major issues because you really haven’t done the prerequisite work to create that foundation of authentic psychological safety first.

[JAMES]:

And we need to talk again, as we have many times, about our hierarchy. Right. Inclusion is one of the stages of our hierarchy, but in order for that to be successful, what needs to exist first is psychological safety.

[COBY]:

Yes.

[JAMES]:

Right. With psychological safety, what needs to exist first for that to be successful is that you need to be meeting what we call the compliance stage, which is complying. Yes, it’s your legal requirements, but it’s so much more than that, too. It’s complying with employee expectations. Are the factors of your workplace competitive, sufficient and equitable? Because if they are not, that’s where the frustration, the disengagement, the burnout, that’s where all of these dissatisfaction pieces take root. And before people can feel that they are psychologically safe, they have to not hate being at work. Right. Before people can feel like they are included and that they belong at the workplace, they need to not hate being at work. And they need to feel safe enough to show some level of vulnerability where I don’t have to completely hide who I am in order to get along at work. Right. There are obviously professional standards that need to be adhered to. But we’re talking about, do people feel safe to show some level of vulnerability? Because if you start jumping in with DEi initiatives when there is dissatisfaction, when there is disengagement, when people are frustrated, tired, angry, and don’t feel safe to show who they are, you are setting yourself up for massive chaos at the end of it. Or beginning, middle and end, depending.

[COBY]:

Yeah, no, you’re right. And again, this idea of asking the questions, what needs to exist first for this to be effective? And do I understand the complexity of what’s involved in all that I’m doing was the catalyst for us creating a workplace culture hierarchy, again, based on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, which really relies on the exact same questions. Right. And the truth is that we have to realize that there is an order to things being built off of other things. Right? Like putting the foundation in place before you can build up to the next level. And again, these are really things that I think we can move into kind of making some recommendations around solutions to avoid chaos. To avoid chaos solutions. What can we actually do to resolve this? But I do think that that’s a big part of it, is we do have to understand that we need to build that foundation. And if you’re looking for a pathway to do that, a systematic framework to do cultural transformations, our workplace culture hierarchy, which is based on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, is an excellent resource and excellent asset to do that. But I also think it’s really important for us to acknowledge that one of the biggest problems that causes us to kind of resort to chaos solutions is the performative expectation or the performative our willingness to choose the solution that will look good or looks like it will work and instead of actually the one that will actually make a difference.

[JAMES]:

Well, yeah, I think you’re right. Because if we go through any of the examples that we just talked about or even ranted about employer branding, DEI, engagement, wellness, all of what we talked about, like the break room treadmill, is a, hey, this is a visible thing that we can tick off. It’s that thin veneer. The employer branding is that, well, this is what we know. This is going to be easy. The tick box, we can be done with it and not really understanding the complexity or what needs to exist first. So avoiding that performance based, that’s not the way I want to say it, because avoiding that performative structure or approach, I think is an excellent comment to make.

[COBY]:

Yeah, because I think that ultimately why we end up defaulting to creating chaos solutions, I think really stems from the fact that we’re not thinking critically about do I understand the complexity of what we are doing? Because ultimately a lot of the chaos solutions, I think the catalysts or the seed that kind of these solutions grow from is the desire for shortcuts, the desire for the easy answer to the complex problem.

[JAMES]:

And yeah, I agree with you, but I also see how it happens. Right. Because there’s a lot of stuff that’s thrown at companies. There is a lot of things that you have to respond to, and managing your employees is not the only thing on your plate.

[COBY]:

Fair.

[JAMES]:

So I get that. But understanding the rationale of why it happens doesn’t negate the fact that you’re doing more harm than good.

[COBY]:

Yeah, I mean, you’re choosing that short term action of drinking, hand sanitizer, thinking that will cure you of COVID but you end up just having Covid and a whole new problem so, I mean, yeah, you’re right. Just because we’re looking for, we want something that’s going to be a set it and forget it. Quick solution, fast turnaround, immediate payoff. Just because we want that doesn’t mean we can force that.

[JAMES]:

But I mean, come on, how many times does that actually work in life? How many times in your personal or professional life has taking the easy answer been given you the best result? I can say for myself it hasn’t worked. Whenever I’ve tried to take the easy road in favor of doing what? Putting the work in, it’s bombed. Why would I expect it to be any different in my company than it is in my personal life?

[COBY]:

No, I think that’s a really good point. Perspective, too. All right, I think this was a good conversation. I think I’ll just do a quick wrap up. Do you have anything else you want to add before I do?

[JAMES]:

No, I’m good. I got lots of ranting in, so I’m feeling fired up. So. Yeah, no, good episode.

[COBY]:

All right, so the question was, are your current people and culture strategies resolving problems or creating chaos? And what this comes down to is the fact that a lot of times our workplaces unintentionally choose what we call chaos solutions, which is when you implement a strategy or plan that you expect will have a transformative effect, but you have not done the prerequisite work to ensure you have a foundation to build from. And this creates unsupported and unsustainable endeavors that will ultimately cause you more harm and turmoil than create a positive effect. And the truth is that this is something that we see all of the time, not just us. I’m sure you see it all the time, too, but because the truth is that when we try something that is really short sighted and ultimately goes off the rails and blows up in our face and creates bigger problems than we had than before we started, that’s something that I think we can all relate to. And we see it all the time. But especially when it comes to things around people and culture strategies, the price you pay for that tends to just keep compounding over time. And we see this with things like employer branding, without changing the culture or creating the retention efforts you need that will actually make your brand truthful and honest. We see this with organizational change when we don’t build the buy in and trust that we need at the beginning for people to want to follow us, for people to want to get on the same page. And we think that if we build it, they will come. We see this with wellness efforts and engagement efforts, where we try to insert things that will be effective but without realizing we have to remove the things that are causing burnout and causing disengagement before anything we do is going to be effective. And we see this with DEI when we try and insert things like antibias training or cultural sensitivity or some of the other DEI initiatives without creating psychological safety or really making sure that we’ve done our homework to remove the challenges that are kind of inherent in a lot of our workplaces systemically. If you want to know, how do we resolve these chaos solutions and avoid them is we have to think critically. Do we have an understanding of the complexity of what we’re about to do? And do we know what needs to exist first before whatever we do is going to be effective? These are the questions that we have to really be asking ourselves because we tend to look for the shortcut answers, the things that look good on the surface, the performative solutions that really won’t pay off and end up being where most of our chaos solutions come from. And this is probably going to be something that we’re going to talk about in our podcast not a lot this year. Is the idea around performative solutions being such a devastating part of workplace culture? So buckle up for that.

[JAMES]:

More ranting?

[COBY]:

Yes, more ranting. But ultimately, we need to make sure that we do our due diligence to understand what needs to exist before things start. And if you’re looking for ideas around that when it comes to workplace culture, our workplace culture hierarchy may be a good framework for you to leverage. All right, so that about does it for us. For a full archive of our podcast and access to the video version hosted on our YouTube channel, visit www.roman3.ca/podcast        thanks for joining us.

[ANNOUNCER]:

For more information on topics like these, don’t forget to visit us at roman3.      Side effects of this podcast may include improved retention, high productivity, increased market share, and employees breaking out in spontaneous dance dry mouth, a version of the sound of James’s voice desire to find a better podcast…